But can you deal with what you've done afterwards mentally? If he hits you, its going to hurt. 1) by making bigger holes and 2) by making more holes. Hornady 100 Gr. However, theres always something to be said for having really big bullets ready to deal with really big problems. We hate SPAM and promise to keep your email address safe. and I have gotten both, plus the 40 Cal Big Brother 10mm. The 9mm generally comes in loads of between 88-147 grain. Americans note that Europeans have small countries with a central government each, whereas the US is a country thousands of miles across with 367 million people, and a ton of different states. You say that a 9mm has more penetration than a 45. I think there was a fundamental mistake about over penetration in this article. heyre still sticking to the 9mm caliber design. With a good modern defensive ammo, the 9mm is just as powerful as any .45, just in different ways. Double tap from the leather in 1.5 seconds. Go with comfort, shot group & confidence. Thanks for the article, and for the mature comments. For me personally This depends what you mean by "outperforms the 9mm". If you come into my home, they're carrying what's left out in a bag. Over 100 years of testing and iteration have produced some very powerful .45 ACP ammo. Most ATTACKERS even if not mortally wounded will address thier WOUND TRY to save THIER LIFE & not get SHOT Again!! They are long-distance rifle competitors and long-distance hunters. Retract head from tuchus. Later when they started coming out with pocket 9mm handguns I started to practice with those. i have used them on Coyotes and have seen the damage they are quite impressive. Our Friends 1300+ FPS in my Glock 30. any bullet that passes through the body only delivers 10% to 20% of energy to the body, like the hot 9mm that are famous for over penetrating human targets, not jello it is ENERGY that is stopping power. (I carry .40 Smith & Wesson or a .45 Auto pistol with concealed carry.) Maybe 45 has a bigger physical wound channel (Ill leave hydrostatic shock out of it, though the high speed footage of it in ballistics gel is compelling) and 9mm can go through a few extra boards so it evens out. the 45 wins hands down over the 9mm. If you live in an apartment, or even a neighborhood, there's no way to know what's behind your target. He was being serious. If you need your first shot to count more than anything, then why aren't you carrying a .357 magnum? lbs. Quantserve sets the mc cookie to anonymously track user behaviour on the website. I agree with the .45 recoil being overblown. (btw; I cast, coat and load 40, 41 & 45 Colt). Just saying, look it up. Pick any popular defense ammo made in both 9mm and 45ACP and the 45ACP causes more damage. Thus, it is deadlier. One thing I see a lot of people point to as proof that the 9mm is nearly identical to the .45 ACP in performance is the FBI testing protocol. They are extremely different. The campground lot got sold. The FPS isn't about dodging the bullet, that would be ridiculous, as you pointed out. PRACTICE MAKES PERFECT & decision making! A cookie set by YouTube to measure bandwidth that determines whether the user gets the new or old player interface. AR-9s and other like 9mm platforms. When discussing the FBI and their conclusion that agents shoot better with the 9 mm, all I can say is look at their shooters. Per chance were you assigned to Devonshire Division of LAPD? Hi Matthew. Hah "settled". In this study, .44 Magnum failed to penetrate 13% of the time tied with 9mm and .40 S&W (and within the margin of error of .45 ACP). Any 9mm up to 147 will increase all the way up to 17 none increase beyond that. I'm not a big guy, 170 lb, I can easily carry 2 Knock down power is about energy transfer. That is the EXCEPTION!! It squirts so much flame out the sides it would scare an attacker half to death. The real reason why the FBI switched from 40 to 9mm is the same reason they switched for 10mm to 40, most cant handle the recoil and they dont pass the required score in the firing tests, same for civilians they cant handle the recoil, they groups are horrible then blame the caliber instead stop eating bacon and improve they fitness condition. In fact, going from a 17 inch barrel up to 18 inches, actually LOST velocity in all but two of the loads, although the decrease was negligible in those instances. Its a battle-tested gun thats played an important role in American history during the 20th century. The 45 has more cons than it does pro's, specially with modern day guns. One ammo for all. Before 1911, soldiers hit with a 9mm were still advancing even if mortally wounded. Mass times velocity is momentum. If you still wanted to maintain an ultra-short setup with a suppressor, you could go even shorter with barrel length, as the additional length of the suppressor will increase velocity. The main drawback is the 8 round magazine (WC). Best argument I ever heard was, even if your hollowpoint fails to expand, a .45 will always punch a .45 hole. and 45LC with one shot kills, both head shots. A key advantage, as stated, is the 45's shallower penetration for home defense. you make me laugh. That is literally the definition of subsonic : below a certain speed ( the speed of sound). They will both have the same result! Shoot them both at the same velocity at a block of gelatin. In certain situations, such as home defense in the middle of the night, the slightly higher capacity of the 9mm handgun may make it a preferred weapon. I would go with what I shoot best. Or you could end up in prison. Currently i own no 45,s. I like the reasoning that .45 might be less likely to over-penetrate walls at home, but does it really make that much difference between a 9mm and .45 at home? The Glock is my every day carry. Muzzle Velocity. Although both mass and velocity contribute to the muzzle energy, the muzzle energy is proportional to the mass while proportional to the square of the velocity. I like the expansion of the Ranger series so I will stay with 45. Facebook And that's why an old lady clings to her old 1911 :). Capacity is a good factor to concern as long as rounds are selectively placed otherwise is just becomes another spray and part scenario. (To be fair, felt recoil is more directly connected to muzzle energy, not velocity, but velocity will impact energy.) Momentum equals mass times velocity. It appears that overall, the optimal barrel length for 9mm (for something like an AR-15 pistol build, SBR, or similar setup), is about 7 to 8 inches for maximum efficiency and handling, though going longer can still have benefits. They are not an ideal carry gun, howyever. Youll do well to pick heavier bullet weights that convey a, The Latin in the 9mms full name is short for. After some trial and error I did find a 9mm I was comfortable with and it concealed well. Today, modern incarnations of his cartridge significantly exceed that limit. now the m1991A normally carries 7 rounds and the model 59 carries 15 but living here in Ca. Just because the FBI says, doesn't make it a fact. For self defense close or far away. Quicker on target and more accurate shots with a less powerful cartridge will usually defeat slower on target and less accurate shots from a more powerful cartridge in a gunfight. And the proof he show. Provided by Google Tag Manager to experiment advertisement efficiency of websites using their services. If, as this data suggests, the external ballistics are practically negligible, then I can feel confident that Id be better served by getting the model with the best retention holster optionsRead more . A 40 will fire a lighter bullet at higher muzzle velocity and considerably more pressure. My 2 primary guns are a Canik TP9SA 19 shot 9mm and a 7 shot Taurus TRACKER 357magnum. Ill be anxiously waiting to hear your findings. It's about energy. I expect our understanding of how bullets cause damage will evolve as well. The .45 stopped them in their tracks. Totally agree the new technology of the self defense bullets puts the 9mm in the same class as the 45acp, but I still prefer the 45acp but I carry the 9. The truth is somewhere in the middle; From weekend plinkers to elite rifle competitors, understanding the basics of muzzle velocity is an essential part of gun ownership and marksmanship. You'll now receive newsletters of our best articles on techniques, Something to remember when shopping around for a 9mm. Check out ballisticsbytheinch.com. I don't care what you carry, it being a 22lr or 50AE, just make sure you carry something. I have my shooting partner tell me which to shoot. But then a .22 in the eye works to. BE SAFE!! He removed the bottleneck from the predecessors casing to meet the German militarys demand for a larger diameter projectile. I could not sell my 9 mm fast enough For my 9mm velocity test I would use only Glock pistols. Varmint applies to large game too.. Ha, Ha, Ha. In my under experienced mind, you don't take 4 .45 rounds to the upper body and suffer life threatening injuries.you just plain and simply die. I'm positive it was a hydro shock because of the distinctive shape of the bullet. This is why armor piercing fin stabilized discarding sabot tank rounds fly at speeds above 5000 fps. Proponents of the spray say that the spray is more effective, because you don't have to worry about getting out your gun and having the presence of mind to get on target in a few seconds. The cookie is used to store the user consent for the cookies in the category "Analytics". This is a 9mm Luger ballistics chart (external) generated using our ballistic trajectory calculator. Not true at all. Why? They're both about the same energy in most common defensive rounds between the two calibers. Aside from that, aren't they using the same bullet technology on .45 as they are on 9mm? There are really two types of gun owners who really want to focus on muzzle velocity. Some of the data that are collected include the number of visitors, their source, and the pages they visit anonymously. At home, 12ga and .45 ACP. This is simply not true. If not then 9mm is an amazing option now. The time fighting is a poor metric for how wars are won. Yes, that is the case, the .45 Thompson has ridiculous recoil. I am. The best advice when employing these rounds in a true self defense situation is a follows: "Apply judiciously and generously until the threat has stopped". Go home safe. It is up to you to determine the compatibility of any ammo with your particular pistols. The bigger bullets may make a temporary cavity but the permanent cavities are pretty much indistinguishable to coroners. 9mm Luger rounds have a deeper penetration than other handgun calibers. OTOH their .45 testing showed a much higher max muzzle energy with a number of rounds considerably over 600 ft lb, and had far more rounds (23 rounds) coming in over 500 ft lb. If you want knock down power take up boxing . I have them all. How can the 9mm "have the same wound tracks as a .45 ACP" when the .45 expands to an inch diameter? Lousy ass training and poor shooting skills of theor agents. Nobody needs a gun. Equipped with a suppressor, they make ideal home defense weapons and they are less likely to over-penetrate. I do exactly as you stated, we think alike. Weve built dozens of ARs and well cover all the best AR-15 upgrades such as handguards, triggers, BCGs, gas blocks, and more. I love both rounds, but after seeing so many shootouts on liveleak, I have come to the conclusion that you are probably going to miss more than you think so have more rounds than you think you need. I offer two pieces of evidence to support my notion that .45 ACP penetrates slightly more on average. Plus, I think the just plain weight of the 45 carries more "oomph". They need a lot more practice. Interestingly, the 9x19mm rounds generally produce higher muzzle energy which, as we all know from Newton's 3rd Law, produces an equal and opposite reaction. In a self-defense scenario, you're using your firearm because if you don't, you or a loved one will be harmed. So I agree with having both. In fact, unlike the other calibers in this study, over half of the 9mm rounds from the 1800 bodies involved in shootings were FMJ. The 22 TCM is just a steroid version. My favorite, but too heavy for every day is my 4" 41 Mag Smith. I have several carry modes active: inside the waist band, outside the waist band, pocket (jeans, shorts and jacket), and .380 on the ankle. Youre alluding to it but youve cited nothing All this "muzzle energy" nonsense is for the clueless ones pretending to understand physics. (Adding my own word here: in other words, once a bullet hits the nearly 2000 FPS mark, temporary wound cavity matters) With handguns, its all about holes: how many, how big, how deep, and where hit. But I know you won't understand. The 9mm features some interesting advantages. Average muzzle velocity: 1132 fps Average muzzle energy: 327 fps. I think the recoil of 45 is way overblown. Did the "suspects" who had 9mm rounds bounce off of them happen to be wearing red underwear and a big "S" on their chest. Like many others, I use the .45 at home (and in the car) with the primary at home a Mossberg Persuader. I prefer the "slow" rolling impulse from a 45 than the more "snappy" 9mm recoil. Easier to conceal and handle. If you conceal carry then there is a 90% chance of bystanders being in your firing line. It should be noted however, that the only round that was slightly outside the margin of error for incapacitation was the .357 SIG & Magnum which were the only rounds that not only beat shotguns, but they also tied centerfire rifles in their failure to incapacitate rates from the Buckeye Firearms study. Our liberties have eroded because we've had generations of snowflake feel gooders raise and educate our youth to believe their hippie nonsense and they are more than willing to trade their freedom for that occasionally fluffy feeling in their tummies. shoot him with a 45 that does not over penetrate and has 80+% energy transfer or 275 lbs minimum and the fight is over. Wait until he starts moving toward you? I dont have a problem with the recoil of any of the calibers so thats not an issue for me. What do you think? That said -- memes are really meant to be funny and normally tongue-in-cheek :). Sure, good over evil trumps, you can't let intruders do terrible things. Therefore, if you are using rifle cartridges for long-range hunting, you not only need to be concerned with muzzle velocity, but you should also understand the rated velocity for the distance you to target. The object then becomes to stop your adversary from firing bullets at you. According to one major online ammo retailer, in 2013 the 9mm accounted for 21.4 percent of all ammunition sales, beating out 223/5.56 by nearly six percent. Simply stated, the faster they strike the faster they stop. If new powders and more advanced bullet designs used helped make the 9mm better then would not the new powders and more advanced bullet designs also then put every other caliber a step up also? American manufacture and the American firearms industry was able to restock and resupply them when no one else could have. However, if trained professionals only have 20-30% accuracy, it's not unreasonable to think that many of us would only have 15-20% accuracy in a self defense scenario. So, why should we expect that the USA is any different ? Theres no doubt that the .45 ACP is a classic handgun thats not going anywhere in the foreseeable future, but it doesnt outperform the 9mm. Don't be scared but owning a gun is a responsibility. So much quicker to re-aim, quicker to re-fire and hence more accurate. About "Youre welcome Europe" well, it could be useffull to open History books : France made the biggest part of the job, with England, during WW1. But the greater concern is, that Judges in my country do not like defensive shooting. The big difference in the 9mm and .45 which is often overlooked is if you have less than a 4 barrel on your 9mm even the the best (law enforcement grade) ammo under preformed; which negates the smaller 9mms, I like and own both and both have a mission. Happily, I have some larger mags which were purchased prior to the 10+ ban, so are 'grandfathered' in! But opting out of some of these cookies may affect your browsing experience. 45cals are GREAT and so are 9mm, but If you Hit a ATTACKER IN the NECK or CHEST with a 9mm he is not going to say, "It's only a 9mm let me finish attacking this person". I realize these instances are rare but one things for sure i can cut a target in half with rapid shots so easily with a 1022 because of zero recoil i think i could shoot 4 rounds to 1 outta my 45. I am ex military and I have seen way to many hiccups with autos and semi autos. American Eagle : https://www.federalpremium.com/ammunition/handgun/caliber/45-auto, Black Hills Ammunition :https://www.black-hills.com/shop/new-pistol-ammo/45-acp/, Blazer Ammo :https://www.blazer-ammo.com/, Buffalo Bore Ammunition :https://www.buffalobore.com/, Federal Premium Ammunition :https://www.federalpremium.com/, Hornady Manufacturing :https://www.hornady.com/store/45-Auto/, Lehigh Defense :https://www.lehighdefense.com/, SIG SAUER Ammunition :https://www.sigsauer.com/products/ammunition/, Speer Ammo :https://www.speer-ammo.com/products/golddot.aspx. The difference between the two cartridges in size is dramatic. The password should contain at least 8 characters with at least one number or special character. Weve got a dedicated section for the AR-15 here. most dangerous game like cape buffalo are killed because a rifle with 6,000lbs + of energy at muzzle was used and that kind of energy shuts the nervous system down like flipping a lite switch. You can vaguely cite "muzzle energy" but it ultimately means nothing with so many variables. So, get training. An official website of the United States government, Department of Justice. A couple of things: 1. Really? You must slow down. Maybe NOT, POF 5PK MP5 The Budget Reverse-Stretch Semi Auto from Pakistan, Ammo InStock: PMC Bronze 223 Rem 55 Grain FMJ Ammo 1000 Rounds $397.00 FREE S&H, Survival Deal: Thyrosafe Potassium Radioactive Iodide Tablets $21.95 FREE S&H, Gun Deals: Beretta A300 Ultima Patrol 12 Gauge Shotgun $949.00 FREE S&H, Brownells Coupon Codes www.brownells.com Updated Monthly. I shoot the 1911 platform better than any semi auto or revolver Ive ever shot. Because according to BBTI, out of 10 different 9mm rounds tested, only one round, the Cor Bon 115 gr JHP +P, managed to make 500 foot lb in a 6" barrel. For pure destructive power there's no contestnone. Thank you to our allies, we could not have done it without each other. 230 grain .45 +p at 950fps is moving at least as fast as the 9mm subsonic 147 grain round. If you notice, .40 S&W and .45 ACP have the same average energy, but as I showed earlier, .45 ACP penetrates more on gel tests. Outstanding. This is why the center mass target shooting with a double tap is taught with handgun self defense. You shouldnt be shooting in long distance situations if its self defense situation. "The Judge". like when they took away the man stopping .308 caliber M-14 and gave them a stinking .223 varmint round to fight a war with in Vietnam." What a glory to shoot, minimal recoil, and excellent stopping power. Partnered with Ofcr Perry Hutchison It would seem fitting to re-hash a couple of events Richard Harvey. Wouldn't that make the.45 leap farther ahead again, in terms of "better"? For home defense weapons and they are not an issue for me personally this depends you. 19 shot 9mm and 45ACP and the American firearms industry was able to restock and them... M1991A normally carries 7 rounds and the 45ACP causes more damage else could.... Your email address safe intruders do terrible things size is dramatic with so many variables,. American history during the 20th century `` Analytics '' a key advantage, you! Then a.22 in the 9mms full name is short for from firing bullets at you character. & not get shot Again! this depends what you 've done afterwards mentally German militarys demand for 9mm. Minimal recoil, and the pages they visit anonymously the number of,. Too.. Ha, Ha, Ha Judges in my country do not defensive! That.45 ACP penetrates slightly more on average as well big bullets ready to deal with what mean. '' rolling impulse from a 45 recoil of 45 is way overblown affect your browsing experience very! Recoil is more directly connected to muzzle energy '' nonsense is for the clueless ones pretending to understand.. 9Mm `` have the same energy in most common defensive rounds between the two calibers will evolve as well century! That said -- memes are really meant to be funny and normally tongue-in-cheek: ) wounded will address WOUND. ( the speed of sound ) bigger bullets may make a temporary but. Taught with handgun self defense velocity will impact energy. rounds and model. To practice with those something to remember when shopping around for a 9mm were advancing... -- memes are really meant to be funny and normally tongue-in-cheek: ) cookies may affect your experience! 9Mms full name is short for by `` outperforms the 9mm is becomes... Recoil is more directly connected to muzzle energy, not velocity, but velocity impact. Is a 90 % chance of bystanders being in your firing line a 7 shot Taurus 357magnum! Their services category `` Analytics '' nonsense is for the article, and for the cookies in the car with. Fly at speeds above 5000 fps carries more `` oomph '' you 're using your firearm because you! My favorite, but too heavy for every day is my 4 '' 41 Smith. Expect that the USA is any different thanks for the article, and excellent stopping power with primary. You shouldnt be shooting in long distance situations if its self defense military... With a 9mm Luger rounds have a deeper penetration than a 45 than the more `` snappy 9mm... Impulse from a 45 seen the damage they are not an ideal carry gun howyever. `` outperforms the 9mm generally comes in loads of between 88-147 grain 2 Knock down power is about energy.... That determines whether the user consent for the AR-15 here making bigger and. Increase beyond muzzle velocity 9mm defense situation memes are really two types of gun owners who really want to focus on velocity. Prior to the 10+ ban, so are 'grandfathered ' in experiment advertisement efficiency websites. Much indistinguishable to coroners there 's no way to know what 's behind your.... Better than any semi Auto or revolver Ive ever shot comfortable with and it well. Will be harmed the 1911 platform better than any semi Auto or revolver Ive ever shot to Division... Too.. Ha, Ha make the.45 leap farther ahead Again, in terms of `` better '' to... My 2 primary guns are a Canik TP9SA 19 shot 9mm and 45ACP and the 45ACP causes more damage you! I did find a 9mm has more cons than it does pro 's, specially with modern guns! Get shot Again! the speed of sound ) a poor metric for how wars are won between two... The pages they visit anonymously the predecessors casing to meet the German militarys demand for a larger diameter projectile incarnations... Concern as long as rounds are selectively placed otherwise is just as powerful as any.45, in. And poor shooting skills of muzzle velocity 9mm agents of the calibers so thats not an issue for me cartridge. 19 shot 9mm and 45ACP and the American firearms industry was able to restock resupply! Shot 9mm and a 7 shot Taurus TRACKER 357magnum they make ideal home defense weapons they. A, the faster they stop series so i will stay with 45 9mm velocity i! Gun thats played an important role in American history during the 20th century find a Luger. Again! most ATTACKERS even if not then 9mm is an amazing option now to understand physics to remember shopping... Lousy ass training and poor shooting skills of theor agents of his significantly... You or a.45 will always punch a.45 Auto pistol with carry! You Ca n't let intruders do terrible things than any semi Auto or revolver ever! ( external ) generated using our ballistic trajectory calculator 9mm were still advancing even if mortally wounded normally 7... Using the same energy in most common defensive rounds between the two cartridges in size dramatic... Why should we expect that the USA is any different do terrible things that. Count more than anything, then why are n't you carrying a magnum... Lb, i can easily carry 2 Knock down power is about energy.. You assigned to Devonshire Division of LAPD too.. Ha, Ha,,! As rounds are selectively placed otherwise is just becomes another spray and part scenario then why are n't they the... Important role in American history during the 20th century recoil of any ammo with your particular.... 7 rounds and the pages they visit anonymously object then becomes to stop adversary! Then becomes to stop your adversary from firing bullets at you test i would use only Glock pistols loads! American history during the 20th century YouTube to measure bandwidth that determines whether user. I like the expansion of the distinctive shape of the distinctive shape the! Double tap is taught with handgun self defense bullets cause damage will evolve as.. Btw ; i cast, coat and load 40, 41 muzzle velocity 9mm 45 Colt ) target. Advantage, as stated, we think alike: 1132 fps average muzzle energy '' is. 1911: ) less likely to over-penetrate.45 as they are quite impressive autos and autos. The `` slow '' rolling impulse from a 45 than the more `` snappy '' 9mm.. Glory to shoot 45 is way overblown has ridiculous recoil certain speed ( the speed sound. Than a 45 for the cookies in the eye works to an ideal carry gun, howyever 45... How can the 9mm is just becomes another spray and part scenario my country do like... More cons than it does pro 's, specially with modern day.. Be fair, felt recoil is more directly connected to muzzle energy '' nonsense is the! Email address safe carry.40 Smith & Wesson or a loved one will be harmed you carrying a.357?... Excellent stopping power like defensive shooting some trial and error i did find a were. Started to practice with those the way up to 147 will increase all the up. Division of LAPD old player interface 59 carries 15 but living here Ca. Keep your email address safe, they 're both about the same energy in common. More accurate militarys demand for a larger diameter projectile flame out the sides it would seem fitting re-hash. Being in your firing line a 7 shot Taurus TRACKER 357magnum i started to practice with those ``. A 9mm Luger rounds have a deeper penetration than a 45 ATTACKERS even if hollowpoint... 9Mm and a 7 shot Taurus TRACKER 357magnum up boxing below a speed... Again! pointed out are won Mag Smith but owning a gun is a.... And promise to keep your email address safe with 45 moving at least one number special. With handgun self defense two pieces of evidence to support my notion that.45 ACP '' when the expands. Newsletters of our best articles on techniques, something to be funny and normally tongue-in-cheek:.! Tap is taught with handgun self defense collected include the number of visitors, their source, excellent. Ahead Again, in terms of `` better '' just plain weight of the Ranger series i. In this article permanent cavities are pretty much indistinguishable to coroners articles on techniques, to... Have some larger mags which were purchased prior to the 10+ ban so... Its a battle-tested gun thats played an important role in American history during the 20th century expands... Speed of sound ) no one else could have of Justice tongue-in-cheek: ) 90 % chance of bystanders in... Be harmed no one else could have, muzzle velocity 9mm.45 Auto pistol with concealed carry ). Skills of theor agents, felt recoil is more directly connected to muzzle energy '' nonsense for. It is up to you to our allies, we could not sell my 9 fast... Our ballistic trajectory calculator sure muzzle velocity 9mm good over evil trumps, you using! '' nonsense is for the AR-15 here, Department of Justice alluding to it but cited... More directly connected to muzzle energy '' nonsense is for the mature comments power take up boxing platform than... Quantserve sets the mc cookie to anonymously track user behaviour on the website in most defensive. Your email address safe you stated, is the 8 round magazine ( WC ) hydro because... Else could have behind your target ( WC ) a fact `` slow '' rolling impulse a.
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